Is There a God?

[Dickdomin]

Well I am not here to argue nor to diss anyone else's experience and belief. I certainly don't have all the answers nor can I guarantee that we live in a cold, mechanical Universe/Multiverse. I do know that the world is chock full of diverse religions and they all strike me as being wrong in the same way that my native religion, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, now strikes me as being wrong.

If I were you and had experienced the phenomena you described, I'd probably be a lot less atheist and a lot more agnostic than I am. I might have a 25% belief in the existence of some kind of God/dess/es, and a 66% belief in reincarnation. Maybe someday I'll have those kinds of experiences. I hope so.

I am with you on the con aspect of every religion I see in the world. The stuff I wrote about in a Circle of Friends came out of a vision I had as a child. Now, I look at everything going on connected to churches and religions over the years and makes me go, even if my vision is real, people will turn it into crap.

I went through the Bible and just looked at what Jesus said, nothing else. Guy sounds pretty cool. How you get from what really sounds like free love, total hippie to right wing, butt fucking children, move the priest so he can have more in the Name of Jesus a Christ our savior The Lord Ahmen No abortions, but let's kill the retarded kid. Wow. Sounds pretty fucked up to me.

Of in the Muslim theme park we have bag the bitch and cut off her clit? I have just a minor problem thinking the Dude who made this rather elegant world and spiffy universe, came back and said, "Hey listen, I fucked up in a couple of spots, so if you guys don't mind could you just...." (And in this case got to be a Dude, girls would never have made a unibrow!)

In modern times in the USA, (modern I mean recentish history) a group of rich white men (2% more than 200 slaves) who owned tons of slaves, convinced a huge group of poor white men (95% never owned nor had any chance of owning a slave) to fight and die by the millions for the Right to own a slave. And they used religion as the base of this argument. Pure con.

So, intelligent design that has some randomness to it and picks what works best, yes I think there is some of that. The lesson. I take from this is "Try different shit and see what works best. Then try some more shit and see if that works better. If it doesn't work, stop doing that."

Do I think we should live our lives hoping this all powerful being is going to notice us being "good" and make us a movie star?

no no no no not a fucking bit.

Now I come down in the believe there are atoms, I cannot see, over God picked Dallas last Sunday, but has decided Denver should win this week and eight year old Mary Beth is going to be butt fucked by a priest, while giving Dick Cheney the OK to bomb Iraq so his pension could get another twenty five million ( yes folks every Happy meal that Haliburton delivers to the troops, Dick Cheney gets a cut).

Stephen Hawkings? I mean here is a total cripple in a wheel chair and Einnie cannot find a fucking comb. I took off my shoes to try to follow along, but they lost me at twenty. I suspect they know shit that is useful, more than "Gawd told me to tell you blah blah."

However their shit (cripple and Ennie) sounds less harmful than "Kill them they believe in the wrong God" guys.

I've had the experiences I talked about. I am not thinking about my past life or my next one either. I am thinking I am going to meet my daughter next week and I am packing my bags, well I am thinking about packing my bags. But not living my life like these experiences are a Proof of Gawd, or that they mean I should live my life in some special way because of it.

God Goddesses reincarnation

So what?

Now that CO2 and water with sunshine can make a plant, totally Wow!
That I can drink two gases, H2 with an O, Wow!

I am quite sure I could eat the plant without knowing and drink the waters as well, but still wow.

Sacrificing a chicken to appease an angry God? You guys go ahead, but could I have the dead chicken when you are done? I could do with a bit of fried chicken right now.

I don't think I am up to the place where my wall phone has the talking and listening part in one thing, I got to hold something to my ear and talk at the wall. You guys flipping open your iPhones hitting some app and making a magic carpet. I am totally jealous. But I tried ripping the phone off the wall and it stopped talking to me completely.

But I am praying to Gawd to send someone to ficit.

Communism by itself, sure sounds nice. Russia and China sure did a nice job.
Capitalism by itself, Union Carbide in. India sure helped folks get to the Next life.

Communism and Capitalism together?
Hmmm
fate AND free will?
Hmmm

I can't wait for the chicken, I'm just going to eat the egg.

Follow me, I've got it figured out. see that cliff over there, well we step off it and onto that colored bridge of light and walk down it to the nice valley, I am sure it is filled with milk and honey.

What is Newt talking about? gravity? I don't see no stinking gravity. That douchebag sits under trees and apples fall on his head. Ignore him.

Follow me. Yes, Gawd is talking to me right now

You're diabetic and lactose intolerant? Well what did you do to piss Gawd off, we had better shun you, just to be on the safe side.

Milk and honey folks, this way. just follow me.

 

[kdt26417]

Yeah, Sir Isaac Newton is another great prophet of my "religion," who among other things discovered calculus simultaneously with Gottfried Leibniz. Galileo Galilei is another of my "prophets." I'll even give Johann Sebastian Bach a nod because he was one of the greatest geniuses ever, though a religious man and not a scientist per se.

We have been talking somewhat about Adam and Eve and I wish to share the Mormon slant on it, just to stir the pot. (Modern) Mormonism conforms in most areas with mainstream Christianity but the Garden of Eden is one area where it strays.

Here's the Mormon version: God didn't want to be the One Who introduced humanity to the phenomenon of evil, yet He knew that humanity could only advance to its full potential if it developed a true understanding of good. Exposure to evil was a "necessary evil" on the way to developing this true understanding of good. Think Plutarch when he said, "Medicine, to produce health, has to examine disease; and music, to create harmony, must investigate discord."

God's way of handling this dilemma was to make the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil available to humans, but at the same time He told them, "For the record guys, I advise you not to partake of that Tree." Mormons don't believe He said that as an official commandment, more as a fair warning. "If you take that Fruit, some serious shit is gonna go down." Think "The Matrix" when Morpheus offers Neo two pills and says (to paraphrase), "Life will be easier for you if you take the blue pill: You can forget all of this and go back to your contented life. If you take the red pill, some serious shit will go down, but you will also know the truth."

Neo chose to take the red pill and essentially that's what the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was: It was the red pill. Once taken, it could not be untaken. Yet LDS doctrine is that God basically wanted Adam and Eve to override His warning about that Tree and take that Fruit. Mormonism teaches that when they took the Fruit, they committed a transgression in that they transgressed God's cautionary statement, but they did not commit a sin, because what they did was for the greater good overall. They took the red pill, and could never go back.

Since they took the red pill, God was ethically compelled to remove them from the Garden of Eden. They had chosen a path where things couldn't always be paradisaical anymore; they would now have to endure sorrow, pain, and even death in the path they had chosen to live. Ultimately, this sorrow, pain, and death would help them to truly understand happiness, pleasure, and life; the journey would be hard, but it would be worth it. So God was not angry with them, but He gently instructed them that they must leave the Garden, so that they could begin to experience life in "the lone and dreary world."

Satan (having played his role in convincing them to transgress God's cautionary advice) took pleasure in knowing that Adam and Eve (and their descendants) would experience painful things, and God was indeed angry with Satan, even though Satan had played a vital role in helping humanity progress, because Satan's motives in the incident had been cruel and spiteful. Essentially, Satan for his part had done the "right" thing for the wrong reason. Although taking that Fruit from that Tree was neither right nor wrong per se, it was just a difficult step that humanity took towards greater knowledge and understanding. Adam and Eve had essentially registered themselves into the Universe's Military School, if you will: the Universe's "School of Hard Knocks."

Now, all of this has been my description of Mormonism's take on the Garden of Eden -- not to be confused with my own beliefs. I (like many people) think that the Adam and Eve story is allegorical not literal. There was no actual Adam and Eve -- how could there be when our true origin was our long march of evolution from ancient apes and earlier life forms? So Adam and Eve is a symbolic story that can be interpreted to have any number of meanings. I just find the Mormon interpretation to have interesting food for thought and that's why I wanted to share it. You can draw your own conclusions of course.

 

[InsaneMystic]

There was no actual Adam and Eve -- how could there be when our true origin was our long march of evolution from ancient apes and earlier life forms?

Unless you count Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam...

...who very probably never met each other in person. Depending on what theory is correct, they may have lived as long as 160.000 years apart.

 

[Dickdomin]

Math

I'll go with the math to refute religion. It is quite simple

God is all powerful
Satan has power
Therefore Satan is God

Commandment : I shall have no other Gods before me. Meaning I am first among Gods hence not one God but multiple Gods in a hierarchical form.

Some interesting things.
When I was in high school I had a substitute teacher who was finishing his doctorate. The glyph in the oldest known Bible that is translated into Day, is more commonly used for eon.

I agree these books are allegorical stories.
I also see intelligence in the design.

The one question I always liked to ask, back in the God all powerful is the statement God is everywhere.
Hence you are God. Christians always say, no we are children of God.
I ask exactly where does god stop and you start if you are not God.

Back to the Everywhere is a simple mathematical statement
All things are God. Hence the universe is God.
In some of my reading there was both near death experience. They seem to follow the same vein of going to the light.
In all things, ultimately it reduces to vibration.
Kev, in your harmony dissonance I would say, C major might be a nice sunny day with a light breeze birds singing
C7 is the grey day
Each of these are days each has a value and a use.

I wonder how much political bullshit was added to both the Bible and the Koran.
How do we get here as aware beings.
I feel it is not possible for learning to go on, this came up in some book I read about a boy being aware of choosing his life
As I said before about Ouspenky's description of the fourth dimension being physical, but we only experience it as time.

I think both religion and government are the current great evils, based on a paradigm of Not Enough.
The rapture is within the sexual orgasm as I spelled out in the Circle of Friends

 

[Dickdomin]

Joseph Campbell

Mentioned that both the flood myth is in every single culture he ever studied, and the sinking world (Atlantis Mu) is in most.

I believe these are real occurrences where the skin of the earth slips.
Earth is 8,000 miles diameter but the crust is only 80, so 1/50th of total diameter.
I a caps build up over land but sink over water, uneven ice cap reaches a certain height and the centrifugal force pulls the cap towards the equator and backwards. The oceans kept going being liquid and slam into the edge of continents
This means we would see mountains on west coast, whole N&S America, Africa, end of meditaraina sea.
Also salt in west in higher concentrations, Western US, great salt lake, Chile, Kalahari, Dead Sea.
Also tears in west edge of ocean floor as heavy oceans pull the thinner crust with it.
Japanese trench, Marriannas, Caribean trench. I think these are also the forces that start the break up of Pangea and begin the whole tectonic plate movement

During out last "ice age" there were Glaciers across most of Canada NAND northen US, scandanvia north Europe but there were caps in coast of Alaska NAND Siberia where mammoths lived
They have found mammoths with I digested grass like the animal was killed and quick frozen. All of these things are easily explained by skin slip.

If you take a pencil and put it on Pennsylvania and draw around the globe, Siberia is under ice, but we know it was not under ice.

Further the earth's North Pole as been in between 140 and 170 different locations. Once was in the middle of Africa. Scientist have been trying to come up with some weird explanations of how these things happen, but skin slip again solves this
Every 15-40 thousand years, depending on conditions of size of land, general warming and cooling (let's remember all the oil, fossil fuels, were life forms that used to be ON TOP of the earth's surface. But we find them many miles deep.
How do this massive amounts of life get "folded" into the earth and buried so they anaerobically decompose into oil, coal and diamonds? Skin slips.

So is there a god, yes, whole universe is sentient, you are the same and here to learn, and fold that knowledge back into the a great All.

Still not giving Runway Jones the win for the genuflecting, not saying, "Hey I made a mistake, cut those clits of women and put them in Bags. (Btw I live were you often see fully bagged women. For me it is a totally wtf!

 

[Dickdomin]

Unless you count Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam...

...who very probably never met each other in person. Depending on what theory is correct, they may have lived as long as 160.000 years apart.

When you read Nick Lane's book about evolution, it looks like the eye, which was thought took a very long time to form, might have happened quite rapidly.

I suspect Adam and Eve come at the same time. The idea we get a whole group of only one sex evolving seems statistically bizarre to me.

Now, there is evidence that during one of the meteor winters, some 75,000 years ago, humans got down to a population in the tens of thousands.

Some 300,000 years ago in a similar situation lived in swamps and this gave rise to the loss of fur. We see that 'fur' return when we have inbreeding, i.e. Male back hair. There is some evidence of Neanderthal and humans interbreeding in parts of Western Europe.

Campbell also found two religions 2,500 and 3,500 hundred with the same messiah myth and identical miracles as 'ol Jeez. Took a few remakes, to get the right script and actors?

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from InsaneMystic):

"Unless you count Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam ... "

Amen brother, amen.

@ Dickdomin ... I like and agree with your math, in that: If God has all power (omnipotent), and Satan has some power, then Satan has some of God's power.

That is if there is a Satan. Don't worry, I don't believe there's a devil, any more than I believe there's a God. In fact, if my belief in God is 1%, then my belief in Satan is 1% of 1%.

Still I have fun with the Mormon story of Adam and Eve. Always have.

I also like and agree with your math, in that: If God is everywhere (omnipresent), and you and I are somewhere, then you and I are God. This idea harmonizes well with the philosophies of guys like Richard Bach. I am a huge fan of Richard Bach, and his book "Illusions" will always be a particular favorite of mine.

Heck if God is everywhere, and Satan is somewhere, then Satan is God! In which case the line between good and evil becomes blurred indeed ...

Re: the Universe is God ... perhaps, then, I could just as well say, that whatever the Universe/Multiverse is, that that's what God is? You see what I'm saying, sometimes pantheism and panentheism strike me as matters of semantics. (I know InsaneMystic would differ with me on that one.)

To clear up some of those semantics, I should clarify that at the heart of my atheist beliefs is, not so much the disbelief in God, as much as, disbelief in things which are generally classed as supernatural. Certainly there's an endless cornucopia of stuff scientists don't know, and technically they could eventually discover that this or that "supernatural" phenomenon is actually a real and "natural" thing. But I don't expect them to; that's what I'm saying. I am a Doubting Thomas when it comes to things people usually class as supernatural, and it's that doubt that lies at the heart of my atheist convictions.

Re: the dimensions ... are quite possibly infinite; string theory requires a number of dimensions beyond the third; I do generally agree that we experience the fourth dimension as the graduated passing of time. It gets more complex than that: I fancy that we may have an infinite number of alternate pasts and alternate futures, all of which "bend away" from the present in this or that curve and configuration in the higher dimensions. Of course that's all speculation on my part and I have no idea whether it's true. Perhaps I believe in it 50%? In any case, in order for the Universe to be in the shape of a hypersphere which is what Einstein predicts, there must be at least one dimension beyond the third.

Re: the Circle of Friends ... is, for all who are reading this, a vast manifesto of sorts, by Dickdomin, and can be found at the following link: http://www.polyamory.sbs/forum/showthread.php?p=280781#post280781 ... I invite you to check it out if you are interested in some more heavy philosophy.

Re: the Great Flood ... I really don't know what to believe about that. A total submersion of every bit of land? Yeah not so much. But Flood legends seem to exist all around the world, so maybe extreme flooding has occurred in various areas and the account of it has spread from culture to culture. Noah's Ark? Yeah not so much. For starters, it rather boggles the mind to try to imagine Noah housing two of every land animal in the Ark. Really? *Every* species? and what's this about God causing the Flood because he was pissed off about the wickedness of humanity? Oh, so go ahead and kill almost all of the non-human land animals as well, including mamma kitties and their nursing babies, even though they're all totally innocent, or are we supposed to believe they were as wicked as the humans?

Re:

"The idea we get a whole group of only one sex evolving seems statistically bizarre to me."

Right, but when scientists say "Adam" and "Eve" I don't think they mean that one sex stopped evolving for (up to) 160,000 years. They just mean that an ancestor common to all modern-day humans can be traced back to (this) point in time for a female ancestor, and to (that) point in time for a male ancestor. Each ancestor was just a snapshot in the evolution of humans; I expect that evolution continued uninterrupted for both sexes in between the lives of these two hominids whom scientists call "Adam" and "Eve."

Re: Jesus ... my best guess is that he was an ordinary (though unusually serene) man when he was alive; since his death the tales of his life have grown taller and taller and as a part of that process, older myths about older gods have been glued onto him. Granted that is strictly my guess and I know that to most modern Christians it is blasphemy. I apologize to any whom I offend, and certainly I don't mean to tell anyone else what they should believe (about Jesus, God, or any of the rest of it).

 

[Dickdomin]

I suspect Adam and Eve come at the same time. The idea we get a whole group of only one sex evolving seems statistically bizarre to me.

I wonder what happens to the lines that don't make it.

I remember one paleontologist in NYC telling me all the bones from Lucy forward could fit in the back of a pick up truck. There are that few records.

Now, there is evidence that during one of the meteor winters, some 75,000 years ago, humans got down to a population in the tens of thousands.

Sorry that was one of the Krakatoa explosions.

Some 300,000 years ago in a similar situation lived in swamps and this gave rise to the loss of fur

I wonder how quickly the neocortex happens.


.

 

[Dickdomin]

Re (from InsaneMystic):

@ Dickdomin ... I like and agree with your math, in that: If God has all power (omnipotent), and Satan has some power, then Satan has some of God's power.

That is if there is a Satan. Don't worry, I don't believe there's a devil, any more than I believe there's a God. In fact, if my belief in God is 1%, then my belief in Satan is 1% of 1%.

I come down to this being just a balance of energy. It is following the laws of physics.
Don't believe in the Devil?!? WTF!!! Dubya, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, fucking tines on the three pronged pitchfork, if you ask me. Proof positive there is a Devil.

If there is a God, must still be resting.

I also like and agree with your math, in that: If God is everywhere (omnipresent), and you and I are somewhere, then you and I are God.

Heck if God is everywhere, and Satan is somewhere, then Satan is God! In which case the line between good and evil becomes blurred indeed ...

It is the value we place that I think is the problem
The Fruit
Like good to have good
Bad to have evil.

Real matter good
Dark matter bad
Sunshine good
Darkness bad
Sun good rain??? Boy when I was in the Desert, once rain fell, everyone went out side and stood in it.

Where I am now rainy season had five days of daily rain, got so I could not cross the rice field or jump the river so my 2km walk and my 3 km walk are replaced by 6 km walk.

Now fact is I could probably use the walk, but not sure I want to do it in the dark! Lol
I think it is the classifying that is where we get weird.
I was talking to someone about being a vegetarian
They were like "It is morally superior not to kill."
I said you are killing plants, killing bacteria, walking along crushing ants.
Life eats life
To think moving life is superior to another kind, then can I say, I am superior to you, for some arbitrary reason. Gives perfect reason for racism.

Brings back fond memories of Randy Newman's Short People, which tons of people took seriously because they'd never heard a philosopher-poet sing music.
Except Bob adly an who was too obscure for 90%

Re: the Universe is God ... perhaps, then, I could just as well say, that whatever the Universe/Multiverse is, that that's what God is? You see what I'm saying, sometimes pantheism and panentheism strike me as matters of semantics. (I know InsaneMystic would differ with me on that one.)

So visible light is actually the same as sound. It is a vibration, same as TV, radio, X-Ray gamma ray etc.

Vibration the one True God.

Yeah but what about the God of Red?
And the Goddess of Middle C (middle of What?)

Discrimination? I do it every day!
I discriminate between poop and peanuts, first makes great fertilizer, second helps me Make great fertilizer.

To clear up some of those semantics, I should clarify that at the heart of my atheist beliefs is, not so much the disbelief in God, as much as, disbelief in things which are generally classed as supernatural. Certainly there's an endless cornucopia of stuff scientists don't know, and technically they could eventually discover that this or that "supernatural" phenomenon is actually a real and "natural" thing. But I don't expect them to; that's what I'm saying. I am a Doubting Thomas when it comes to things people usually class as supernatural, and it's that doubt that lies at the heart of my atheist convictions.

how fucking silly, little tiny microscopic life forms the cause of illness. We all know it is bad humor and god getting you for fucking your neighbor's goat, when you had a perfectly good sheep at home! Lol

michele galquelin scientific explanation of astrology is an interesting book. This was a powerful French family who set out to Totally disprove Astrology Once and For All!!!

They gather something like 47,000 birth dates, time, location of people in different fields some famous and many not famous. Check this check that fucking everything is going fine.

Then they discover famous warriors (generals ect) have Mars either at Ascendant, MidHeaven, Descendant, Nadir
Same is true grump shits, most writer-philosopher, Saturn
Lovers Venus
Jupiter actors and scientist
Moon artists

These were like in the staticial ten million to one range.

Sun no correlation, mercury none, all planets past Saturn none.

But after this they found a few other things. So I am with you, but the idea of sending signals, Rhine showed it statistically and there were better senders than receivers, there were some amazing pairs.

People poo poo, but I cannot fucking see any TV waves nor see any radio waves and I had an antique set that sucks picking up stations.

The night my father died in Paris, I was on the top of Mt Kaleakala, freezing my ass off, suddenly I heard his voice, like he was standing there. Turns out this was right after he died within a minute.

Am I having my Own thoughts? Or could it be there are thousands of thought waves and our brain is tuning into thoughts and we think we are thinking them, or is it some combination, like I am making a document or video on my computer, but then log into the internet and download one.

Remember Mad Max when the Kids are Telling the a tell, and they have this thing that looks like a TV.

So we have a skin slip, call it a level 10 earthquake. Everyone within 20 miles of any west coast gone, anyone within 10 miles of east coast, backwash wave. Gone, this is at least 70-75% of all people.

Many are killed in the buildings falling, fires, dams. And then no MacDonalds, supermarket, how many people can go out eat plants, make hunting tools and survive. I can because I have learned.

But later how do we talk to our kids about chatting on Skype or Facetime.

Well, I would talk to my friend Kevin on the computer.
"What's a computer?"
"It is like a box with lights in it."

Three or four generations later.
Power God could talk through the light to Kevin God, his name be blessed and merciful. Ad Kevin God said "I don't believe in God, by that children Kevin God did not believe in OTHER lesser gods.

Kevin God did believe in a Dickdomin god who fuck thousand of women, so the lesson is let's get laid. ladies come up here to the offering couches and men get your offering sticks out.

Is it supernatural? After ten generations with stones, now up to stones, but not a bronze?

In the Vedic hymns the boy talks about climbing into the mountains where Rama lived with his followers and their iron birds. Sounds like planes to me and fits right in with skin slips.

In Bible, Ezekiel or one of the fucking angels raises his hand a s'mores some guy with a sound. Small pistol? In a spear sword world some guy pulls out a pistol and shoots someone, I think that fits the bill. Again, survivors of a skin slip who maybe were in planes, managed to land and have some technology intact. Hide out in isolated places.
Come down from time to time, collect tributes, slaves to work fields, lambs and Cows bags of grain the best young men and women. All fits to skin slip, but how the fuck do you talk about it when you have a fucking stone spear and some guy drops down in a a harrier jet?

I am god
I am a messager of God
Boom! Any other stupid fuck got a question?
Get those sheep, goats and Cattle on my wings of angles.
Yes, we'll take thos four men and those redhead looks nice. Totally fits.

Until science catches up. We are out there praying our asses off. Those guys are watching on some spy cam laughing their asses off. And their is always a dickhead in the group," Hey let's get this Elmer and butt fuck him."

Alien flying sauces? Why not advanced technology. Our last skin slip was 17,000 years ago. What if the one before was 40.000
We have no cars 200 years ago
Now we fly
100 years ago
50 years ago we leave the planet
Forty years ago we go to the moon.
Imagine how far tech would advance if 47% of our materials, energy and manpower were not spent making war.

 

[Dickdomin]

Imagine how far tech would advance if 47% of our materials, energy and manpower were not spent making war.

Clarify. This was a joint study between Columbia and Berkeley years ago. It tracks all the materials, money, manpower, education, energy in gas, oil, coal, eletric spent on armies, police, prisons and court system.

Their range ran from 43% to as high as 63%. I picked a number in the middle.
I imagine it is much higher now. We did the Vietnam war for 600 millin (actually that was whole military budget) now is $600 billion. Coke should cost $25 per can and. VW should sell for $2 million each.

Re: the dimensions ...

Think I put this in here before, but cool mental exercise. Take time to imagine each step, because it helps seet your mind up. Then as Kevin points out, multiple potential futures, because you have the Free will to choose own a car dealership, marry divorce ten times die poor, or fuck it women are too fucking much work, hey Bob how about a blowjob and a beer? I got this idea for a handbag. Died rich.

This brings up an interesting problem; past, present and future. So let me give you an interesting mathematical explanation of Time. This is taken from the great Russian mathematician, P.D.Ouspensky’s book, Tertium Organum. It goes as follows and is quite easy to understand.
Imagine you are a being without dimension, a point, sitting on a line of many colors. As the line moves through your point, you experience colors changing. You say, “Colors changing is a function of time.” However, you and I can look down and see and say, “no, it is a many colored line.”
Now imagine you are a being of one dimension, a line, sitting on a plane of many colors. As the plane moves through your line, you experience colors changing. You say, “Colors changing is a function of time.” However, you and I can look down and see and say, “no, it is a many colored plane.”
Now imagine you are a being of two dimensions, a plane, sitting on a cube of many colors. As the cube moves through your plane, you experience colors changing. You say, “Colors changing is a function of time.” However, you and I can look down and see and say, “no, it is a many colored cube.”
Now hold your hand about a foot above the table and slowly lower your hand. And you say, “ Well, that took some time.”
You and I as three dimensional beings experience the fourth dimension as something which takes time. However, to a fourth dimensional being, your hand is always one foot above the table and always resting on the table and all the points in between. For God to “see” the beginning and end of our three dimensional time would be rather simple.

I think there are times when our minds in "god state" are able to 'see' beyond our three dimensional range, i.e. we see through 'time' to a different place along that fourth dimensional set which we are experiencing as a series of 3 dimensional Nows.

We are 'seeing' a Now that might not show up in our three dimensional experience until a week, month, year, hundreds of years from this Now.

It is a bit convoluted to talk about, but I think if you've read what I have written, it takes you mind right to that place or grasping or Getting it.

Perhaps I believe in it 50%? In any case, in order for the Universe to be in the shape of a hypersphere which is what Einstein predicts, there must be at least one dimension beyond the third.

Again, this is in the border of the supernatural. My daughter took a class about the history of Psychology and would call me up laughing and say, I cannot believe some of the shit you believed back then. Fuck I believed damned near every theory. They made sense. Some have some valid points.

I sense when we get to the all or nothing, it is likely going to be so fucking simple, we will all shit in our pants.

That Newtonian Physics has different laws from Quantum from String

It will look like one plus one is two and not need some weird long ass equation with weird symbols to explain everything.

Re: the Circle of Friends ... is, for all who are reading this, a vast manifesto of sorts, by Dickdomin, and can be found at the following link: http://www.polyamory.sbs/forum/showthread.php?p=280781#post280781 ... I invite you to check it out if you are interested in some more heavy philosophy.

Thank you for the plug. It is a long post. Jump in and scream bullshit, or your alternative idea, or goose any that you find. As I have frequently said, I do Walk on water, but often my socks do get damp.

Re: the Great Flood ... I really don't know what to believe about that. A total submersion of every bit of land?

Again survivors of skin slip. Now imagine the polar caps one day top of planet, both are moved about 2,000 miles towards the equator and melting. First the melt is huge and the wind pattern off them is stunning. A friend of mine made a mock up and there would be place that for fifty to a few hundred years is would have 300-600 inches of rain.

As I recall Kauai has highest rainfall and it is like 357" a year. Rains nearly every single day.

It takes like a thousand years for the ice packs to melt, because the northern edges still freeze and thaw with winter.

Also the hot equator and cold ice make for more clouds, so this slows the melt. Huge climate changes.

Noah's Ark? Yeah not so much. For starters, it

Allegory and Two rabbits? But possibly some guy who has a huge farm high in mountains that sheds water and animals are herded and cared for, possible. But Chinese whispers for 20 to 100 generations., turns into a boat.

Right, but when scientists say "Adam" and "Eve" I don't think they mean that one sex stopped evolving for (up to) 160,000 years. They just mean that an ancestor common to all modern-day humans can be traced back to (this) point in time for a female ancestor, and to (that) point in time for a male ancestor.

The possibility of one line surviving a skin slip and the male in that line dying, then a new growth males surviving could easily explain that.

The one that does baffle me is the Dogen of Timbuktu. No glass in their society, no telescopes.

1812 British Royal Society show up. Dogen point to Sirius, say we come from there. A planet circling one of those Three stars.
British, yes belt of Orion three stars.
Dogen no middle stars is really three stars, two you can see one you cannot see.
British: you silly savages, we have telescopes. One star! Jumped up monkeys these savages!

1878: better telescope, oh well of course by Jove two stars. No three stars, we come from there. Two star you jumped up monkey we have modern technology and butting fucking and caning in our public school, we're civilized! You jumped up monkey! Two stars

1959 first radio telescope turn on Sirius finds first quasar. We still cannot see the fucking thing visibly so how did the Dogen know?

They say their oral history is 20,000 generation x 15 years (avg gen) = 300,000 years about age of Homo sapiens. Add Monsanto Frankencorn to the mix and

"Hey, look those monkeys are walking upright. Be interesting to make them hairless, have full time tits?

Bonobo experiements one, god knows which experiment we are. Move on?
There are parts of the universe billions of years older than out part, in the planet forming stuff. So life starts earlier, maybe doesn't have skin slips, never evolves butt fucking, women baggin religions. You know intelligent evolved society instead of Dubya for President.

Manages to find this planet with life on it, make a change, or combines with the local animals, sailors on a long journey and all.

Just some interesting information. A d interesting questions.

The Dogen's oral history says this. They know about a three star cluster our "modern science" could not see, but 150 years later proves to be true. These conversations are recorded in the British Royal Society's archives.

Re: Jesus ... my best guess is that he was an ordinary (though unusually serene) man when he was alive;

Yes I was very impressed with his serenity with the money lenders outside the temple.

And he says, I bring love. Now we do call fucking fucking, but there are those of use who still call it time to time, "making love"

Jesus, 12 guys and one chick sounds like the kinda shit I am proposing.
Holy Jesus Creeping Shit! Am I the second coming?

hang on mom, Janet and I are... I'm coming in a minute!

I think we are gods, think we should take the Sahara desert, pump water into it and turn it into a huge green farm (yes, solar and wave pumps to pump sea water using solar stills to distill, irrigate desert, no till farming, fix excess carbon (global warming solutions are like a Muslim cutting off a girls clit, total douchebag) fixed into soil making it hold water, cooler so now rain falls

I am pro-organized group sex, so not swinging, not orgies, go read Circle of Friends.

since his death the tales of his life have grown taller and taller and as a part of that process, older myths about older gods have been glued onto him.

Churches lying? That would be almost as bad as our government lying. Interesting Bin Laden's father was at G Bush Sr. Ranch 9/11/01

Interesting they pick that day.
Interesting US Army is building bio weapons and Nigeria, where we mine uranium and have huge oil wells, plus Hati where we conduct a number of clandestine operations is where AIDS first appears.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from Dickdomin):

"If there is a God, must still be resting."

Or not omnipotent, and not able to intervene in our temporal affairs. I'd strongly lean toward that version of God if I wasn't so atheist.

Re: opposition in all things ... I would venture that there's a lot of gray area between good and bad, and between good and evil. In fact absolute "black and white" may not really exist.

Re:

"It is morally superior not to kill."

That's a little simplistic. Do the United States conduct too much warfare? Hell yeah. Do I support capital punishment? I do not. But what about meat-eaters whose instinct is to kill? Are hawks, wolves, and spiders morally inferior? Should I eat fish? (Come on now, omega-3's.) Should I eat crab? Clam chowder? Scallops?

I consider myself guilty of participating in a vast evil when I eat beef, pork, and chicken. But I am too much of a moral weakling to stop doing it. I make half-hearted efforts to cut down.

And of course you participate in the murder of a plant when you eat a carrot or potato. In fact you also participate in the murder of various bugs when you eat any fruit or vegetable. Ask any farmer; they all chop and squish various bugs every day while they go about their work.

Is it morally inferior to swat a housefly? How about a mosquito? Is it morally inferior to extract a tapeworm? Come on, you're not going to kill the tapeworm are you? Is it morally inferior to kill a microbe? Just because it's making humans sick doesn't mean the microbe doesn't deserve to live -- does it?

That was quite a tangent, but I trust it's now clear what I mean by a "little" simplistic.

Re: war ... redirect the world's (i.e. mostly the United States') war budget, along with the world's (i.e. mostly the United States') prison budget, and I am convinced that you'd easily have enough funds to feed (and develop new/better ways to feed) the poor worldwide, as well as to supply birth control to the poor people worldwide who desperately need it.

Re: Iraq and the Middle East ... they insinuate that Obama is a Muslim and a terrorist (or the friend of terrorists), and yet the Bush family has huge business dealings in the Middle East. So who's really scratching whose back here I wonder?

Re: governments and churches in general ... are rife with scandal and I wouldn't hold anything past them.

Re: sex (and whatnot) ... I think some of us should be kinky, and others should be vanilla. Some should have group sex, others should have twosome sex. Some should be polyamorous, others should be monogamous ... etc. etc. etc.

Re: astrology ... I have many good friends who believe in it, so far be it from me to diss it, but ... there's just no way. I can't even imagine what kind of evidence would convince me otherwise. Arbitrary groups of stars, and planets (all technically nothing more than very distant balls of stuff) somehow color the genes behind my personality: me, Kevin, a tiny speck among billions of specks on a minute planet ... based on those stars'/planets' locations in relation to that one minute planet? and somehow humans know the magic formula for this. Ugh, yeah, I file that away with numerology, tarot cards, palm reading, crystal balls, Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Jesus' face appearing on a grilled cheese sandwich. I'll entertain conversations about it, but only in a role-playing sense.

Re: books that contradict mainstream science ... I file those away in the same category as I do the Book of Mormon. Unless I wrote the book myself, I assume that some kind of elaborate fraud is at work (unless *really* proven otherwise). And if I did write the book myself, I'd question my sanity and wonder what confirmation bias lurked under my self-professed skepticism. I'll put this way, the more outrageous the claim, the more tangible the proof I require (for me). Squishy proof isn't going to do it, it has to be proof as precise and concrete as mainstream mathematics. Some may villify me for being so stubborn, but I won't lose any sleep over that.

Again I don't know what I think I know to a 100% certainty. But 99% is enough for me. The world is filled with folk tales and anecdotes about this or that phenomenon that could only be explained by the supernatural, but I write all of that off to lies, coincidence, wishful thinking, and extreme brain farts. Villify me for my stubborn unbelief if you will. I look at it like Abraham Lincoln looked at it:

"I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and that by religious men, who are equally certain that they represent the Divine will. I am sure that either the one or the other class is mistaken in that belief, and perhaps in some respects both. I hope it will not be irreverent for me to say that if it is probable that God would reveal his will to others, on a point so connected with my duty, it might be supposed he would reveal it directly to me."
-- Abraham Lincoln, Reply to an Emancipation Memorial (1862)

Similarly, I look at like Thomas Didymus looked at it:

"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."
-- John 20:24-25 (KJV)

Please note that neither Lincoln nor Didymus was willing to accept as proof some book written by someone they'd never met, no matter how convincing the author or their credentials. In fact, Doubting Thomas wasn't even willing to believe the first-hand account of his closest and most trusted friends. No, reading about it and hearing about it is not enough. Experiencing it in a very personal and empirical way is the only evidence that would satisfy me. Please villify me as necessary if you feel that's appropriate. I am very stubborn about stuff that contradicts mainstream science.

Do I believe in radio waves? Yes. Do I believe in brain waves? No. Please villify me as appropriate.

Were there ancient technologically-advanced societies that were destroyed by natural disasters? The concept isn't too outlandish, but I'm still gonna say probably not unless we see a good deal of peer-reviewed fossil evidence.

Re: space aliens ... would intervene (if they could) in the suffering that Earth life experiences. As would God. That is my belief/opinion. It's very possible that advanced life exists in other star systems, but with Einstein's theory about the impossibility of exceeding the speed of light, it's not hard to imagine why all the inhabited star systems might remain isolated from each other.

Then again there's also the chance that the formation of life is so improbable that one planet per Universe is about the most often you could expect to see said formation. Earth is about four billion years old, a sizeable chunk of the Universe's age of about 14 billion years. We could easily be the first pool of life that has formed so far.

Not trying to give you a bad time here. Just evaluating your propositions and explaining why I remain a stubborn skeptic and an unbeliever. I don't ask anyone to adopt my belief system. I don't even suggest it as something to consider. I only seek to clarify in my own mind why I believe the things that I believe -- for my own benefit. I guess ruminating publicly gets more of the blood going to my brain. Left to my own devices I get pretty lazy. (And Mr. Happy isn't exactly Mr. Industry either, if you know what I mean. )

The Dogen's oral history ... does perk up my interest a bit. Could just be an amazing coincidence, but who knows. I admit (as always) that there is a ton of stuff that scientists don't know, and can't explain. That's okay. I still have lots of faith in the vast majority of what mainstream science thinks it knows so far.

Re (from Dickdomin):

"Yes I was very impressed with his serenity with the money lenders outside the temple."

Haha, must have been some kind of male PMS. Actually my youngest brother has an interesting theory about that. He believes that Jesus was continuously learning and growing and improving in character throughout his life. That's how my brother explains the contrast between the scene in the temple and the astonishing moment on the cross when Jesus forgave the people who had crucified him (and who had arranged for him to be crucified).

[shrug] That and the fact that we don't know which parts of the Bible are factual and which are add-ons. When I say "Jesus was a serene man," I am strictly guessing based on the overall impression I get from his "recorded" life in general. Or perhaps I could say, I fancy that he was serene on an average day?

Don't misunderstand me: It is not important to me to be able to think that Jesus was a great guy. If I found out he was the world's greatest jerk, it wouldn't cause me to lose any sleep. Crikey, the guy's been dead for about 2000 years. Maybe his goodness (or badness) shouldn't matter that much by now? All that really matters (to me) is picking out the parts of the Bible that honestly teach us to do good today. Which is a personal process; it's not something we can do in perfect agreement with each other. [shrug] It is what it is. (Unless it isn't what it is. In which case, it is what it isn't. )

 

[Dickdomin]

Now wait a minute!

Re (from Dickdomin):


Re: opposition in all things ... I would venture that there's a lot of gray area between good and bad, and between good and evil.

Oh shit! We are so NOT going to have to get into Fifty Shades of Grey, are we?

Though my friend did like the part where the girl was blindfolded And looked deeply into his eyes (which I hoped were closed)

In fact absolute "black and white" may not really exist.

I defer to Pantone, but likely They are not acceptable, because you didn't write the chart.


Morally superior not to kill animals discush

That's a little simplistic. Do the United States conduct too much warfare? Hell yeah.

I take umbrage at your use of the word "conduct". This word should only be used when discussing currents, electrical and orchestras, symphonic.

The United States and warfare!?! Bah, humbug. The United States is benevolently spreading peace, using the Serenity Tank, the Peace Keeper missile and the delicate application of truncheons about your head and shoulders to create true zen like states of meditative consciousness leading to pure spiritual enlightenment.

Do I support capital punishment? I do not.

So not even vice-grips to the testicles of bankers?
You are going to let capital just walk?

Or by support, do you mean, "get your own coffee! Do I look like your maid!?!"

But what about meat-eaters whose instinct is to kill? Are hawks, wolves, and spiders morally inferior?

I think the short answer is yes, except when the hawk swoops down and kills that pigeon that was about to crap on my windshield. That hawk clearly is morally superior.
Wolves, I have no idea, but I do run a massive spider hotel. We serve all the free flying bugs they can catch. Though there is a rather clear sign that the indoor and outdoor Christmas lights are NOT, and I repeat NOT for the other use.

Should I eat fish? (Come on now, omega-3's.)

No, I ordered the fish. You ordered the martini.

Should I eat crab? Clam chowder? Scallops?

Real crabs? Or horseshoe, which are not crabs, but spiders.
Clam chowder? Only in Boston or Manhattan.

I consider myself guilty of participating in a vast evil when I eat beef, pork, and chicken.

Vast evil? As in conspiracy?

"Waitress, you can give me his bacon. Yes, we are trying to improve his moral turpitude. And I'll have the steak and eggs, with a side of fried chicken, I'm trying to cut down on the glare coming off my halo.

And of course you participate in the murder of a plant when you eat a carrot or potato.

Murder!?!? You mean slaughter! And where were you when Mr. potato head was dropped into boiling oil? Are you going to fall back on that sorry excuse, "I vas ust following orders."

Is it morally inferior to swat a housefly?

When a perfectly good TOW Missile was right there!
Absolutely, remember "balanced, fair and appropriate response" (not to take from Fox's balanced and fair reporting)

How about a mosquito?

I follow Gandhi on Mosquitos.

Is it morally inferior to extract a tapeworm? Come on, you're not going to kill the tapeworm are you?

Do not extract until the double P has finished, is what I always say.

Is it morally inferior to kill a microbe? Just because it's making humans sick doesn't mean the microbe doesn't deserve to live -- does it?

That is acidophilus's job.

That was quite a tangent, but I trust it's now clear what I mean by a "little" simplistic.

I must have used the wrong sine, though I did have a cosine.
I hope my clarifications have made this crystal clear.

Re: war ... redirect the world's (i.e. mostly the United States') war budget, along with the world's (i.e. mostly the United States') prison budget, and I am convinced that you'd easily have enough funds to feed (and develop new/better ways to feed) the poor worldwide, as well as to supply birth control to the poor people worldwide who desperately need it.

We have been feeding them a line of Grade A bullshit and dropping smart bombs as a part of improved educational system.

Re: Iraq and the Middle East ... they insinuate that Obama is a Muslim and a terrorist (or the friend of terrorists), and yet the Bush family has huge business dealings in the Middle East. So who's really scratching whose back here I wonder?

I believe there was no back scratching, but during the handshaking part some cream filling did get on my shoes.
Bin Laden's father helping baby Bush was to repay the favor Papa Bush did training Osama. Those planes were an early attempt to deliver a thank you note directly to the desk of a supporter. That they delivered it to the wrong floor was due to them not understanding a third floor and a thirteenth floor were both included in the trade center building design.

Re: sex (and whatnot) ... I think some of us should be kinky, and others should be vanilla.

And the hot fudge? Or is this one of your "shades of grey" and there is no B&W.

Some should have group sex, others should have twosome sex.

What about the onesome sex when done in a group, I refer you to Wikipedia: circle jerk
Does this come under perversion, or just boy will be boys?
And the facial treatment, known as bukake in Japan, is it sexual harassment or should we put it under preventative health care?

Re: astrology ... I have many good friends who believe in it, so far be it from me to diss it, but ... there's just no way. I can't even imagine what kind of evidence would convince me otherwise.

Ten million to one using data collected from 47,000 birth records. Now, they were using IBM computers, so...
The correlation was only Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn and moon.
All the other stuff seemed to be pure Hooey, though I think they used some more academic French term.

Arbitrary groups of stars, and planets (all technically nothing more than very distant balls of stuff)

I have never read an astrology book talking about arbitrary groups of stars.
The moon of course made of green cheese, but I am not sure of its Pantone number, so likely not specified to someone with a Swiss watch like mind such as yourself.

) somehow color the genes behind my personality: me, Kevin, a tiny speck among billions of specks on a minute planet ..

So this sounds like you are complaining that they colored Outside the lines. I mean tiny speck, did you give them a crayon sharpener?

. based on those stars'/planets' locations in relation to that one minute planet? and somehow humans know the magic formula for this.

I am right there with you on this. I mean moon in Aquarius add 20 minutes to the cooking time, but reduce the heat to -27 degrees Kelvin (not a relation of yours I hope, such an ego naming a whole system of ranking Am I Hot or Not after yourself. And Julian, should stick to fries.)

Ugh, yeah, I file that away with numerology, tarot cards, palm reading, crystal balls, Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Jesus' face appearing on a grilled cheese sandwich.

Is this a Green cheese sandwich? Was this while he was giving the sermon while mounted on Mary?
Tooth Fairy: clearly gay abomination anyone believing should be shunned.
Easter Bunny: is she related to Fuck Bunny?
Santa Claus: sneaking up and down chimneys. I had to put a fucking Patriot missile in my fireplace, though it has reduced the marshmallow roasting time considerably
crystal Balls: now wait a minute here! I got my at Sak Fifth Avenue and the sales girl said they looked lovely with my a Golden Bone. I become a total chick magnet, which brought the Hep Cats, which was close enough to Hello Kitty that I got a slew of Japanese girls. So, I advise you keep an open mind on the crystal balls. Steuben makes the best ones.
Palm Reading: want to pick up girls in Bars. OMG!!! Palm reading, crosses the touch barrier and involves the single most important thing in her life, HER! Just saying.

Re: books that contradict mainstream science ...

I know Louis Pasteur totally against the mainstream of the scientific study of blood letting
Einstein saying Newton was off his nut.

I'm with that guy who wanted to close the patent office back in 1909 because who fucking needs it, everything that is going to be invented has already been invented.

I just carry books around so chicks will think I'm smart and ask me to calculate sumpin. I used an old quadratic equation to calculate the exact distance from her G-spot to her cervix. I used to use the Golden Mean, but find my golden bone with those Steuben crystal balls does the trick. They always say OMG!


But I gotta go my study circle on oneness sex is to apply a preventive medicine treatment to this Japanese girl who came in waving her health care plan.

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"Oh shit! We are so *not* going to have to get into Fifty Shades of Grey, are we?"

Oh hells yeah. We're going all the way in, and bringing a plate of vanilla wafers with us (to serve as communion). For wine we'll use hot fudge.

Re:

"I defer to Pantone, but likely They are not acceptable, because you didn't write the chart."

Haha, They are only acceptable if a mainstream scientist wrote a peer-reviewed paper on it. How do I know They're really Pantone?

Re:

"So not even vice-grips to the testicles of bankers?"

You're forgetting the bankers might be masochists. I don't want to inadvertently reward them.

Re:

"Clam chowder? Only in Boston or Manhattan."

Hey wait, I live near Seattle and the West Coast. We're all about clam chowder, and we have other seafood here. Heck, we even have that fish shop in Pike Place where they hurl fresh fish through the air. Now that's what I call a reproducible experiment!

Re:

"Vast evil? As in conspiracy?"

Yes, I meet with the heads of big beef, big pork, and big poultry every week. We wear black cloaks and decide which animals are failing to conform and consume more than they really need. "Is that chicken composting, growing long hair, and accusing the meat industry of internal corruption? Well, then that chicken's got to go. Have one of our drones take it out." Makes the general chicken populace so much more manageable.

Re:

"And where were you when Mr. Potato Head was dropped into boiling oil?"

In some restaurants, they have a tank of live Potato Heads and you can hand select the one you want to eat. Then they take that Potato Head, remove the rubber bands from its hands, and dump it live into the vat of boiling oil. Just before they drop it in, the Potato Head says, "There's no place like home. There's no place like home." They scream a little when they first start to boil but then they come out an inticing red color and are delicious to eat. They come with a little dish of melted butter to dip them in.

Re: onesome sex ... is Shade #37 of the Fifty Shades (or is that the 1,114 Pantone spot colors?).

Re: bukake ... is an abomination that should only be conducted when everyone's watching. Then a full report should be posted on the relationships board (to serve as a warning to others -- don't try this at home! Leave it to the professionals).

Re: ten million to one odds using 47,000 birth records ... sounds almost as impressive as the Virgin Mary appearing on a taco, and it's nice that they only correlated with Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and the Moon, since the various stars are many light years away. But unless I was there to verify and run the numbers myself, I guess I remain stubbornly skeptical. Please villify me as appropriate.

Re:

"I have never read an astrology book talking about arbitrary groups of stars."

Isn't that what a constellation is?

Re:

"The Moon of course is made of green cheese, but I am not sure of its Pantone number, so likely not specified to someone with a Swiss-watch-like mind such as yourself."

Actually my mind is like a Swiss steel trap -- which has it's drawbacks since I occasionally get my hand caught in it. That's why I don't scratch my head anymore, and I've given up on snatching up that glob of green cheese that's been sitting on my head for years ever since that meteor from the Moon struck me on the head. Before that happened, I never really believed in gravity. Sounded like an old wives' tale to me. "I heard some tree dropped an apple and it ended up on a guy's head!" "Oh yes, I'm sure that's true. It sounds just like something that happened to Uncle George."

Re: the Sermon on the Mount ... I have said nothing about who was Mounting whom at the time. I will neither confirm nor deny that report (as I define "I").

Re: the Easter Bunny ... is related to the Playboy Bunny, but I'm not sure the relation follows legitimate bloodlines.

Re: crystal balls ... I only count the two that replaced my original balls. I don't know if they're Steubens but they're really nice. The doctor kept telling me a vasectomy would be a perfectly fine measure of birth control, but I wanted to be sure.

Re: palm reading ... "OMG can I read your palms? You have such perfect hands for it. Let's see ... this line indicates that a very lazy, cynical, stubborn, big-boned man will drift into your life soon. At first you will think, 'Ewww! 30 years older than me, with ridges on his fingernails!' but then for no scientific reason, you'll find yourself falling hard and fast for this mysterious man. Do not resist these feelings when they take hold of you, for this man will lead you on the Path of the One Twue Way of Unbelief. Also do not sell your car, as this man doesn't have a ride of his own."

"You can tell all that just by reading my palm?"

"Doubt not the wisdom of ten thousand years, O fair maiden. Oh wait, whoops, I was reading the wrong line. Oh, I know ... Are you a librarian? You must be a Libra."

Re: mainstream science ... I have very little faith in the mainstream science of 150+ years ago, and far less in the medical branch of it. Modern medical science is much more reliable although it still scarcely touches upon the tip of the iceberg. By contrast, mathematics have been amazingly advanced for hundreds (in some respects thousands) of years, though there I suppose we're dealing with a bigger iceberg.

A lot depends on whether (and how) the scientific method is used. Back in the old days doctors made a lot of assumptions based on circumstantial evidence. I suppose they had to; they didn't have the tools of today (much less tomorrow).

Re: Einstein on Newton ... you'll have to show me the quote (verified by Wikiquote) where Einstein said Newton was off his nut. I don't believe he said that. He did say Newton was off his apple, and you can believe that because I read it in a book by this one really reliable skeptic. Einstein also suggested that Newton's model of the Universe was consistent but outdated in light of new tools and knowledge. Einstein both improved upon Newton's work and he used Newton's work as a foundation.

Re: the U.S. patent office ... now you're talking about bureaucracy, not science. I'm just sayin'.

In the name of Newton, Einstein, and Pasteur. Amen.

 

[Magdlyn]

Re Jesus: he is just one more dying and rising grain god. His story is a midrash of Moses' story for more modern, Roman conquered times. Each gospel, and Paul, copy and contradict each other simultaneously. The canonical gospels were carefully redacted and composed to make Romans look good and Judaeans and Gallileans look bad. So voila! "Roman" catholic Xtianity coming out of a tiny state called Judaea, and let's kill all those Jews and celebrate and hate their religion at the same time! Cognitive dissonance for the win.

There is just enough contemporary fact in the "gospels" [from the German for "god's word," (but-- spells! like god casting a spell, but witches are evil)] to make it seem real. Like, um, any novel written whenever. And a lot of the facts and geography are wrong anyway.

Re: Didymus Thomas... Didymus means Twin, and some say that means Jesus' twin brother, or fleshly doppleganger. And Thomas? Another spelling of Tammuz, a dying and rising grain god that Yahwists attempted to wipe out, when the nobles, the Yahweh-promoting Levites, wanted all the sacrifices to come to them so they didn't have to work for it. (Yes, the Levites and Aaronites ate those first fruits, the best sheep and goats, wore the best wool, ate the best grain. In Yahweh's name they exploited the peasantry.) Tammuz was worshiped in the Jerusalem Temple in Ezekiel's day. Ezekiel 8:14-- "Then he (an angel, which means messenger of Yahweh) brought me to the north gate of the house of Yahweh, and I saw women mourning the god Tammuz." And of course, worshipping another god in Yahweh's temple was the people's choice, as was worshipping Asherah in the groves, under every green tree (see tree symbolism below) and on the high places. Superstitious king Josiah of Judah thought worshipping Yahweh would prevent Assyria from conquering Judah as it had already conquered the more pagan sister state of Israel to the north. But Babylon conquered Assyria and then conquered Judah, and took those Levites and kings away. And guess what? Those nobles liked it in Babylon and most of them never left, even after Persia conquered Babylon and King Cyrus said they could go. Because face it, Babylon had it all over the dusty villages and rather small town of Jerusalem at the time. lol

Tammuz, god of vegetation, the consort of Ishtar. Jesus' twin. Nuff said?

I kind of like your Mormon version of Gan Eden as a choice similar to Neo's choice in The Matrix, Kevin. The more symbolic and less literal we take it, the better. That is what the Jews do with their myth. They think literalism is for kids. Ask any Jew, even the most Orthodox and Torah observant.

But "the devil" didnt exist in ancient Judaism. That comes from a later time when the Jews were in Babylon, which was conquered by Persia. Jews were intrigued by the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism, and got all the good god, bad Satan stuff from there. Originally, the serpent in the tree was the goddess Asherah. A snake was HER symbol, make no mistake. Eve, a woman, listened to the goddess, naturally.

There is much tree worship in Egyptian, Assyrian and ancient Jewish religion. Food came from trees like milk comes from women's breasts.

men anointing the Asherah tree in Assyria

Isis as a tree nursing a Pharoah

So, rather than go on longer... Xtianity, and Jesus, nothing new, and not historical. Foisted on us by force and intimidation. Judaism and Xtianity were all about politics from day one.

 

[Magdlyn]

Getting back to Satan.

His name in the Old Testament is the shaytan, the Accuser, or the one who raises obstacles.

He was Yahweh's helper in the Book of Job. He was one of a polytheistic pantheon. Yes, "put no other gods before me" does acknowledge there are other gods. Yahweh was the god of Judah and Israel, according to one group, the Levites and Aaronites. They worked hard over the centuries to wipe out all other gods (or more to the point in the patriarchy, goddesses) in Canaan, but even Solomon was a freekin goddess worshipper, in between banging his hundreds of wives and concubines, who were goddess worshippers too! (Altho his story is grossly exaggerated. There is no evidence, other than legendary, that Solomon was either wise or rich.)

So, the snake was not Satan. And Lucifer, if you read the scripture, was an epithet for the son of the morning star, the light bringer (a star, a goddess), a king of Babylon. Satan or the shaytan was not a fallen angel. That is later legend building.

Baalzebul or Beelzebub was an oracle god of Ekron, a neighboring nation to Judah and an enemy. Once more, by New Testament times, conflated with "Satan," and "Lucifer" as per the "bad guy" character Angra Manyu from Zoroastrian dualism.

2 Kings 2-4: "[King] Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria and injured himself. So he sent messengers, saying to them, “Go and consult Baal Zebul, the god of Ekron, to see if I will recover from this injury.”

3 But the messenger of Yahweh said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Go up and meet the messengers of the king of Samaria and ask them, ‘Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going off to consult Baal Zebul, the god of Ekron?’ 4 Therefore this is what Yahweh says: ‘You will not leave the bed you are lying on. You will certainly die!’”

 

[Dickdomin]

Personal experiences: this lifetime

So astrology: I think 99% pure bullshit! except what the Galquelin family found and others replicated, because we are talking about a group of scientist setting out to prove astrology is bullshit.

However, when I HS, a guidance counsellor sent his mother my birth info and she sent back a two page snap of my life, along with critical dates. And the accuracy in the information on those dates stunned me.

Many years later, astrologer, drew up a transit chart.

"Oh July 7th must have been a rough day for you in relationships and housing."
There was no question, no lead up.

July 7th, NYC girlfriend told me her roommate was feeling fragile, please help her, so selflessly made love to the roommate, girlfriend blows up, throws me out of house. NYC apartment gone.
Go out to CT, girlfriend #2 at a recording session, her friend, needed her tonsils and cervix checked. Gf#2 walks in during my exhaustive medical examination. CT house gone, gf with it.
Drive to NH, gf #3&4 at flea market one of their friends broke up with boyfriend and needed consoling, gf 3&4 set fire to house, burned it to the ground. Now dishes in the sink, windows did need cleaning, maybe had nothing to do with me offering my selfless empathic embrace, but two astrologers, pulled rabbits out of a hat. The second one went on for two hours, dates and events. Dead on each time, even in future Predicitions.

Palmistry: I am a neuromuscular specialist. I have worked in this field for more than 40 years.

When I first studied Palmistry, I thought total bullshit, but I was like 12. When I was about 15 I noticed girls liked it a lot. Then after 21, I learned that you could walk up to a group of women in a bar, step into the middle of them, order a drink and put one finger on one girl's hand and look at it. Never needed to say anything, just look, but with an expressive raise of eyebrows, then ignore her.
"What!?!"
"No, I don't want to upset you or have you get angry with me."
Within ten minutes, five hands out stretched, "What about me?"
Now separating one woman from a group of five is difficult, but separating two is not so difficult, but I make bullshit smell like eau du cologne. Plus their palms did show clear signs of masochistic, bisexuality. Yes, nice eau du cologne, isn't it.

Now in the hundred or so books on Palmistry only Judith Hipskind's first book is worth reading. She divides the hand into four parts: fingers = active, palm = passive, thumb forefinger and half of middle finger = conscious, half middle ring pinky = unconscious.

So the thumb forefinger is active conscious. The I am and the I do (the builder)
The movement of your thumb, forefinger and half of middle finger (snap your fingers) plus the movement of your eyes comprise 80% of the area of motor cortex activity.
Base of the thumb called the Mound of Mars is the passive conscious, your heart. So you consciously know this person you love is bad for you, but you cannot do a fucking thing about the fact you love them.

Middle finger money, house and possessions, half you have conscious control over. I'll study computer science over art history. But some shit good and bad just come to you. (I did not give that sixth drink to the drunk who ran the stopsign and hit my car)
Ring finger: expression of love. So you might know the bad boy is bad, but you get to choose between marrying him or the accountant.

Pinkie expression of your art, do you write, play music, paint or make sculpture out of cans, your active choice.

Base of palm below your pinkie, Mound of the Moon, your creativity. Passive unconscious. Your creativity. In my own life, I notice I have no control over when I am creative or what will come out of my creative mind. My mound is large, firm and well developed. I have been tested for Ideaphoria (idea creation) and rank in the 99.99%.

Hipskind says the lines will change as you progress through life, but usually the major lines no so much. So I started to track this using photographs and ink prints. And indeed they do.

I also know that our brains set up "patterns of movement", just look at a group of people walking. Same bones, same muscles, totally different postures and movements.
I teach people how to change these patterns using the two programs I have developed as a brain scientist.
For a period of about five years, I photographed people and their hands, follow years later and the changes in their hands corresponded to changes in their walk and personalities.

I still think most palmistry books are pure bullshit, same of astrology books.
The moon however does affect the tides and a full moon has a greater effect than a new moon. I have personally witnessed giving a mental patient a three times level fatal dose of Thorazine, during a full moon and that patient would not sleep, would not even sit down. Ranted and raved for two days. This was not a one off, but something that occurred every month for years.
The Galquelins found a correlation between four planets and the moon. Their deviation from the norm was greater than 10 million to one.
That scientists do not study this is right up there with the early 60s, Nine out of a Ten Doctors smoke Lucky Strikes. (Though I must say I always loved Stan Greenberg's Nine out of Ten Doctors recommend Chung King)

During Einstein's early period after the revelation of E=MC2, more than 90% of the scientific community refused to believe in Relativity. It only became accepted after those scientists died.

Does Jupiter out out waves of energy, yes it does and yes they are measurable. Solar flares still interrupt radio waves.
Scientist reproduced chemically perfect sea water, which when a certain fish was dropped into a 10,000 gallon tank died within 10 seconds, but add three drops of real sea water to this 10,000 gallon tank at same time as fish were dropped in the opposite corner, the fish lived.
What causes the change in the chemically perfect seawater is still unknown, but the experiment has been reproduced with the same results. Interesting.
Gravity is not equal in all parts of the globe, why? Unexplained, but it has been measured. No rational mathematical model explains why there is a difference.
Chinese have been doing acupuncture for thousands of years. Recent studies using radioactive tracers show the points of a single meridian line are physically connected. Russian scientists developed a way to read energy output levels from various points. Western medicine poo pooed acupuncture calling it scientifically invalid as late as the 1980s.

Designing scientific experiments to conform to scientific method is extremely difficult. Many paradigm shifting discoveries are both accidental and involve variables that were completely unknown.

In the Galquelin astrology, there was nothing mentioned in astrology books about the effect they discovered. Most of those books are just a rehash of one single book written by Plutarch.

The Piri Reis map made in 1531 on goat skin and carbon dated, shows the shoreline of the three islands of the Antartic which have supposedly been under ice for more than 3 million years. The shoreline has a 90% degree of accuracy as computed by Army Corps of Engineers cartographers using radio waves to make the measurement.

So modern scientists, still using fairly primitive tools and a much more primitive mind set.better than 100 years ago, a thousand, yes. But nonetheless, great scientific truths are uncovered and many held for years are overturned.

Proof of God?
I think we might need a definition of what God is first.
I go with a working hypothesis of the entire universe working in a similar fashion to the human brain. But that would be like comparing a modern racing car with a horse drawn buggy (yes, both use horses in the calculations).
How then to measure the parameters?
We can barely work out the weather using super computers and complex mathematical models.
Entire universe, might take a few more days.
Things you see as Red or blue are things which absorb all light waves except Red or Blue. What effect do those other wavelengths have on the "Red" thing? They are not passing through, we see a shadow, i.e. An absence of light.

I am still wowed by the fact that two gases make up a liquid water and that is sucked up into a plant, where a solid (carbon) mixed with a gas (oxygen) make a gas that sunlight breaks apart, releasing O and making the carbohydrate that forms the plant.

Do I believe in the baby god, little old man sitting in a mud puddle making chickens goats and pigs, different kinds of cats? And deciding Dallas over Pittsburg, but Bob's wife Carol made such a nice prayer, I am giving Bob the win on a point spread? Let me check my astrology ephemeris, yep it is a lock, whoa, nice long horns on that last cow, bet those would look great on my Caddy, totally go with my new swave.

More thoughts than any of you wanted.

Mag, darling. I thought Lucifer was a Druid god of earth and sexuality, along the lines of Pan. Did like how the Romans built those churches where the witches used to pray. I am certain the Republicans used this model when they adopted Jesus in their Kill a Commie for Christ campaign. I know it goes against the Thou Shall not Kill commandment, but their legal staff says they have that covered under the Ecclesiastes, Time for Every Purpose clause (not to be confused with S. Claus that guy leaving crap all over your house Dec 25 just after midnight)

I could be totally wrong. I am the guy who confused Mohamed with the Cheshire Cat.

 

[Magdlyn]

Lucifer a Druid god? There was/is a pagan god archetype called the Horned God, but he wasn't conflated with the Christian devil until a later period. I was discussing the Biblical roots of Satan. But we can travel forward in time.

Once Christianity was the official religion of Rome, in the 4th century, via Constantine's decree, the religion began to spread as the army made its way north. The official god of the Roman army had been Mithras, who shared many qualities with Jesus, so it was an easy switch.

Leaders then began to spread propaganda-- pro-pagan-da, about its great, true, universal (catholic in Greek) religion. Then to encourage the "pagans" to become Christians, yes, they made some beloved pagan deities into saints (St Bridget of Ireland was based on Brigid, a powerful goddess), some deities into "devils," like the Horned and horny God into Satan, and built their churches on sites of sacred pagan ritual, holy grottoes, lakes, mountains. Many cathedrals dedicated to Our Lady (Mary Virgin or Magdalene) were built on sites that were originally shrines to Isis or other goddesses. And of course the Christian holidays Christmas and Easter are congruent with the winter solstice (Saturnalia) and spring equinox, (Ostara/Estre, a goddess at her fertile, estrus time).

It was convenient to conflate a fertility god with Satan, in the sex-negative culture of Christianity.

 

[Magdlyn]

To return to astrology, it is no mere coincidence that the Jesus myth has a central god, and 12 disciples. Jesus was a sun god, his corona, the rays of the sun. The 12 disciples represent the 12 sections of the Zodiac.

The Jews picked up on this zodiacal number/concept during the Babylon captivity, where it was invented. Before Jesus and his disciples, we had the mythical history of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Our clocks also have 12 numbers. Our calendars have 12 months. (Factoid: one of the months of the Jewish calendar is still called Tammuz, whose worship was performed "illegally" in the House of Yahweh. I find that hilarious!) It's not a coincidence. The only childhood story in the canonical gospel tradition, besides the birth, is Jesus teaching his teachers in the House of Yahweh, at age 12.

We can get into more numbers. The ark was 40 days and 40 nights at sea. The escaping Israelites wandered for 40 years. Jesus was baptized and then wandered in the wilderness for 40 days and nights. 40 was merely a Jewish catchall number for "a long period of time."

It's all myth. You mentioned Joseph Campbell, who wrote The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Our brains, especially when in a trance like state, especially when drugged on hallucinogens (which were discovered long before the Swinging 1960s), create this hero/ine over and over. Everyone from Osiris to Odysseus, to Mithras, Isis, Ishtar, Aphrodite, Tammuz, Adonis, Mary Magdalene/Virgin, Jesus, Brigid, Buddha, Dorothy of Oz, Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter, follows a similar path to enlightenment and power.

So, is there a "God?" There are many gods and goddesses, but boiling it down to One, humans have created Her/Him over the centuries. It's just something our brains do.

 

[Dickdomin]

Witchcraft

To return to astrology, it is no mere coincidence that the Jesus myth has a central god, and 12 disciples. Jesus was a sun god, his corona, the rays of the sun. The 12 disciples represent the 12 sections of the Zodiac.

I sort of link Campbell with Jung and his work on the collective unconscious. Which around that time I was studying Gurjeiff and Ouspensky's

By the time I came back from Berkeley it was to study with Schultes. I was sort of into a period of being interested in both organic chem and botany.

One of the things Schultes talked about was in every single culture there was a plant derived drug. Now he was interested in the rituals and the "religious experiences" but he was also studying the plants. What was interesting is he could find "no purpose" for the drugs, mainly alkaloids being in the plant. That is to say, they did not afford the plant some unique assistance, like a thorn protecting a rose, or milkweed's poison protecting the plant.

The drugs which affected human consciousness gained no benefit by having the drugs, but all cause similar "spiritual" enlightenment or insight to humans. Also it seemed animals did not get these effects, because many of the alkaloids needed to have elaborate processing.

That humans had worked out this processing, entirely different plants, entirely different parts of the world, but in every case used for these spiritually enlightening experiences.

Numbers because of other totally unrelated studies have always fascinated me.

I sense that so much of what we see in things like astrology, palmistry (which I think has a basis in science because how your brain develops and is used in such ways as posture, facial expressions is clearly expressed in the body. How you "habitually" fold your hands as you use them and open and close them make the lines unique), however so much of this "real science" would be lost during the skin slips, but "echos" of this would remain.

The church in hunting and killing witches was pure business. Those women were the healers and the center of the societies. The church monks were totally Brand X, inferior to these skills passed on through generations.

I was introduced to " the craft" in my late childhood and early teens through relatives, so much of the history of church locations and rituals was taught to me, but as maybe is quite apparent I am somewhat of a loose cannon. My mind is not content to follow a narrow old path, even though it is rich with knowledge, because I feel that knowledge is not the full knowledge but an echo.

The rise of allopathic medicine was promoted by the church, but it still uses plants as a source of the majority of its complex chemicals. I learned this when traveling through the mountains of Kentucky and Tennessee where herb gatherers left bundles of plants at the local country store to be collected by the pharmaceutical companies. I had always imagined they used a strict straight chemical base, like they do using oil (petroleum) to make vitamins and fertilizers.

The Jews picked up on this zodiacal number/concept during the Babylon captivity, where it was invented.

I think it goes back further than this. I had a very limited edition book published from Denmark on ancient geometry and megalithic sites. Again I think these are echos of older things. The idea that Homo sapiens is around for 250-300 thousand years, but does not build a city until 10,000 years ago is just a bit hard for me to believe.

Like for 240,000 years humans just sat around and went Duh?

A skin slip is not like they had a bad earthquake in a part of Japan (I was in the Hanshin Quake in 1995) that was 7.1 but the area affected was tiny. It also lasted only 30 seconds. I am talking about a level 10 (magnitude doubles for each point rise in Richter) and to move the skin roughly 2,000 down from the North Pole towards the equator and back say 500 miles, while having the huge oceans slam into the continents.

No building stands. Then you have the folding that creates the huge oil fields we have. And 15-40,000 years in between these skin slips.

If our world were destroyed today, and the earth moves dramatically, exactly what would you expect to find? More importantly more core drilling are these 4" holes, you go down a few hundred feet, what are the odds you find something and recognize it as advanced technology after 20,000 years when you are starting from the mindset "the present is the first advanced technology in Earth's History"?

We find 2-4,000 year old batteries in Babylonian times and most scientist still say, oh no. Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity. I saw Stellas, tall columns that used to stand in Egypt, some of these things are over 100' single stone, not like the columns of the Greeks or Egyptian stuff made from blocks, but no one can offer an explanation of how they were raised. Uneven pressure would cause them to crack.

These things appear to be from after this last Ice Age, so not so ancient, less than 17,000 years.

Our clocks also have 12 numbers. Our calendars have 12 months.

I find our calendar insane. Some month 30 some 31 and then throw one in of 28!!!!WTF!!!
Simple 12 x 30 = 360 (90 days per season)
4 days for two equinoxes, two solstices
1 new year day near the winter solstice
Add 1 day every four years after the summer solstice and it is perfect

This calendar invented by the Catholic church was designed to wipe out the old calendar used by the older animist cultures and societies.

The word Pagan is a roman word for country dweller, similar to modern Maerican Hick and Hillbilly.

Sure took the Romans a long time to conquer them and they did not hold the outlying areas very long, nor well.

I mean Not like old Dubya who conquered all Iraq in a few weeks and now pure and harmonious peace across the Middle East!

So, is there a "God?" There are many gods and goddesses, but boiling it down to One, humans have created Her/Him over the centuries. It's just something our brains do.

I sense as I look at the universe that the All Everything and as you get down into the smallest parts of atoms, it appears that there is nothing but events of energy.

Glass is a liquid.mit molecules are flowing, but there is a window in our farmhouse that is more than 250 years old, and the bubble in it is still there.

So I sense there is an All maybe called the Great All, but at that level it cannot be divided or distinguished the All Everything is exactly the same as Something Nothing. Once you divide it, or manifest it, then it divides into the Light Something and the dark Nothing, the Male-Female, God-Goddess and once this first division is made, then like the Tao Te Ching says it becomes the myriad forms.

I think the power struggle which happened some time is the distant past whee women were pushed out of the temples, was a straight power play.

Likely some very crafty, small dicked, impotent guy convinced enough men to follow his lead and this grew out if it.

I think our brains crave answers and a return to a time when Our parents were The God and The Goddess to us. Sort of the sentiment in Taylor Swift's song, Don't you Ever a Grow Up.

 

[kdt26417]

@ Magdlyn ... thanks for your new posts here, interesting stuff.

@ Dickdomin ... your preaching is beginning to get on my nerves.

Re: astrology ... look, it's quite simple. Let's take Jupiter: essentially a giant globe of stuff. Its influence on the planet Earth is as follows: It exerts a slight gravitational pull on our planet (despite how ridiculously far away it is). Okay, so some kid is born on Earth at a certain angle from Jupiter. Somehow, Jupiter's gravitational tug on Earth causes that kid to have an altered personality (altered in a very specific way) for the rest of his/her life. Does this help to explain why I find astrology so impossible to believe?

Or there's the alternative narrative: Jupiter isn't just a blob of mass with a gravitational pull, it is also a magical sphere that emits personality waves at certain angles at certain times. If one of those waves strikes a newborn child at just the right angle (at the moment of birth), then that child will have "Jupiter" characteristics in his/her personality throughout his/her life. Again, does this help to explain why I find astrology so impossible to believe?

Re: but these scientists were (supposedly) *trying* to prove that astrology is bogus ... and that's why I should suspend my disbelief? I hear about Einstein all the time. These "scientists" I have heard of but once: on this thread. I don't give a rat's ass what they *claim* they were trying to "disprove." I think they were mostly trying to make a lot of money selling a freaky book. Please do not continue to try to shove astrology up my butthole. I am not interested.

Everything else about astrology I can explain by pure confirmation bias. It isn't that difficult. I am sorry if that hurts people's feelings whose astrological aha moments are near and dear to their lives. I am tired of believing fairy tales; I got tired of it at least 15 years ago.

Re: palmistry ... seriously? It's not enough for me to become an astrology believer, I need to become a palm reading believer too. [SMH] Dude, this is the wrong day to poke me with that pointy stick. I am not in the mood.

Please put me in the same category as Penn and Teller. I am fed up with supernatural bullshit. I'm not interested in your folk tales about how Aunt Myrtle got a corn in her toe just when the palmist said she would.

The Moon has the same effect on us as Jupiter. A gravitational pull. Just because it happens to be closer to us doesn't make it more special. The surface of the Moon appears to have a consistency similar to the contents of a vacuum bag. Not consistent with some spiritual orb with magical powers. Gravitational pulls are not personality pulls, ocean tides notwithstanding. I sense that I am repeating myself.

Full Moon, Half Moon, New Moon, same effect. Feel free to provide a link to credible text that indicates otherwise.

Most of your narrative I simply don't believe. Why should I? I wasn't there.

Re: relativity ... became accepted by mainstream science as soon as lensing effects were observed next to the Sun during a Solar eclipse. An experiment that can be replicated and peer-reviewed counts for quite a bit in modern science, which is why modern science is the best tool we currently have for testing supposed truths. If we come up with something better in future centuries, wonderful.

I have already conceded that scientists don't know everything. In the meantime, 99% of all supernatural folk tales are bullshit.

Re: acupuncture ... I have tried/experienced it personally. Frankly, it didn't do a damn thing for me. Next?

Re: numerology ... OMG you won't be satisfied until I believe in that load of crap too. Well if you're lucky others besides me will read your endlessly rambling preaching and believe in it.

If I haven't successfully made my case about astrology by now, I'm not going to successfully make my case about any other supernatural phenomenon either. It's all bullshit, and if you can prove me wrong (which would take far more than your self-inflated assertions), you're welcome to do so.

Re:

"The idea that Homo sapiens is around for 250-300 thousand years, but does not build a city until 10,000 years ago is just a bit hard for me to believe."

Then I suppose that given four billion years of evolution, and Homo sapiens not being the superior of all species, therefore dinosaurs and whatnot must have also built their own cities (which, like the 80,000-year-old human cities, have mysteriously left no trace in the fossil record, even though the fossils of skeletons, and spearheads that no doubt have some kind of amazing technology hidden in their deceptively crude outlines, have miraculously been found in droves).

Re:

"If our world were destroyed today, and the earth moves dramatically, exactly what would you expect to find?"

Nothing -- including skeletons and spearheads. And I'm curious to know why it would even matter. Perhaps because we should be preparing ourselves for the next skin slip?

Re:

"We find 2-4,000 year old batteries in Babylonian times and most scientist still say, oh no."

And I call bullshit. Please provide credible evidence that these objects are/were batteries. A link to a credible website would be a good start.